Venturing into Fashion Tech

Build It Series: AI Mirrors Transforming Fashion Retail with Raza's Afsal Koya

• Beyond Form • Episode 64

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Setting Up a Fashion Store in the 90s:
Today's episode we're with Afsal Koya, CEO of Raza Clothing which is a fashion store and label in the USA that uses AIMIRR's virtual try-on technology. Afsal's transformation from a computer scientist to a streetwear brand founder is an unusual one. We hear his journey that started in a small Ohio store back in 1992, Afsal shares how he navigated the evolving landscape of fashion trends to launch his own brand, emphasising the importance of learning and teamwork in driving retail innovation.

AIMIRR and Virtual Try-On:
AIMIRR's AI-powered magic mirror is currently installed at Castleton Square Mall, Indiana and we hear how Afsal worked with AIMIRR CEO Pritesh Kanani to get the technology up and running. This episode unpacks the insights collected to date, in particular how it's been a hit with the younger crowd and how the seamless AR shopping experience has boosted the store's foot traffic. Does that mean in-store VTO technology is ripe for mass adoption?

Find out about Raza Clothing: razaclothingstore.com
Find out about AIMIRR's technology: aimirr.com

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The show is recorded from Beyond Form, a fashion tech innovation platform. We build, invest, and educate fashion tech entrepreneurs and startups. We’d love to hear your feedback, so let us know if you’d like to hear a certain topic. Email us at podcast@beyondform.io. If you’re an entrepreneur or fashion tech startup looking for studio support, check out our website: beyondform.io

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang:

Hello, I'm Peter Jeun Ho Tsang, founder and CEO of Beyond Form, and welcome to the special series Build it, where I speak to founders and their clients as to how they're building fashion technologies. This series gives you a glimpse into topics such as personal struggles, technical challenges, working in fashion and more. On today's episode, I'm joined by Afsal Koya, the CEO of Raza Clothing, an independent streetwear brand based in the USA. On today's show, we're back with Pritesh, the CEO of AIMIRR, where they have an active integration inside the Raza Clothing store.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang:

We have real tips and insights as to how it has been integrated, some of the challenges that are with retail experience and what the future may look like for Omnichannel VTO.

Afsal Koya:

Time is the most precious commodity we have right now in our society can use an AI mirror and find their fit and style without having to lug all th eir bags to the dressing room and trying it on it makes the buying decision much easier for the customer.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang:

Let's get this conversation going with Afsal on today's episode of Venturing into Fashion Tech. How are you toda y, Afsal?

Afsal Koya:

I'm doing great. How are you?

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang:

I'm very good, thank you. Looking forward to hearing your story about Raza Clothing Pritesh. How are you?

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang:

We've heard you on the show before.

Pritesh Kanani:

Yeah, thanks for having me back, Peter. I'm doing excellent.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang:

Good to hear that.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang:

So today's episode we're talking about body sizing, virtual trialing of mental reality and retail experiences. So to set the scene for our listeners, while virtual trialing started as an online digital tool, its integration into brick and mortar stores represent a new path to customers in omni-channel retailing. It's a good example where digital experience merged with the physical. Consumer preference for AR experiences in retail is growing. A study by 3Kit, for example, found that 61% of customers prefer to shop with retailers that provide AR experiences over those that don't. So what does this mean for the retailer?

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang:

Virtual try-on technology can result in significant cost savings for retailers. For example, inventory carrying costs typically can range from 20 to 30 percent of the total inventory value. By reducing the need for physical inventory and store space, vto or virtual try-on allows retailers to showcase a broader range of products without incurring these high costs. So it's got a multitude of benefits and use cases. But if we get into that side of things, aso, I'd like to hear your story. How did you become a fashion entrepreneur and, from what I understand, you have your finger in many pies. How did it lead to setting up Raza Clothing?

Afsal Koya:

I started in this business in 1992. My background is in computer science. That's what I studied in college, tried working in that field for some time, definitely felt like I'm not cut out on sitting in front of a computer from nine to five. Tried different things and I always was passionate about fashion. While I was in school back in India, I was known as the kid who would always rip off my jeans we are talking about 1984 here. So I used to rip my jeans, have my dad run over the jeans a couple of times to get a different fade and so on. So I was always fascinated by the fact that how people like to project who they are through their fashion. That always was very fascinating to me. I tried different things While I was in New York.

Afsal Koya:

I was in different businesses and then in 1992, I opened my first retail store in Zanesville, ohio, then soon expanded into Lancaster, then the big jump into the big cross city which was Columbus, ohio, then moved on to Indianapolis and so on. So first started in the business with some plain keys and we were doing customizing. At that point we were doing airbrushing. I had an artist who used to airbrush with a very true string budget and then got a little bit into the fad of surfwear. We carry some major surf, surf lines and so on and around that time urban streetwear was taking off with FUBU and Sean John and so on, and I thought that that was where the market is heading and I kind of rode that urban wave and that street wear. Urban wave has been very good for us. We started introducing our own line of clothing, which has been doing very well. We are right now in retail as well as wholesale. Yeah, 32 years in the business and learning something every day.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang:

So it sounds like you share a very similar path to Pritesh, then Computer science going into fashion, which from my perspective, is really interesting to hear. Not many people make that leap. What attracted you to the industry in the first place?

Afsal Koya:

I was always fascinated by fashion. The way a person projects how they want to be seen by the world is through fashion. When I see someone dress a certain way, I always ask myself what made this person wear this clothing today? What are they feeling? What are they trying to express through their clothing? How do they want to be perceived by the world? So that is very, very, very interesting to me.

Afsal Koya:

They say, if you love what you do, then you are not going to work one day in your life, and that has been the case with me. I'm in love with the industry. Love it with the business. I do a lot of trade shows.

Afsal Koya:

Some people call me the trade show junkie, because every time I go to a trade show I'm learning something new, and my motto is, as far as learning about this business has always been you don't need to carry a mountain every day, but make sure you carry at least a pebble every day, meaning you need to invest in continuous improvement, even if it is one small thing. If you can implement that in the business, the compounding factor is going to be huge over the years. So I try to learn something new every day and also incorporate my team into every decision-making and so on, because right now I'm getting a little older and my younger associates, like Nagesa, knows much more about fashion than I do, but I try to keep up with the trend. Yeah, so in fashion, I guess it's more important to know what not to buy as much as what to buy.

Afsal Koya:

And was entrepreneurship always in your blood there is not much entrepreneurship in my blood, except you know, my dad was a lawyer, my younger sister is an engineer, my older sister is in I guess she could be you can say she was. She's an entrepreneur. She's in the restaurant business along with her husband my grandfather. Back in the days he an entrepreneur. That's one of the uh difficult uh things I had to deal with. Starting this business was I did not have a role model, anyone to teach me the ropes, so I had to pretty much learn everything by uh burning my hand in a way so, then, for our listeners that may not be familiar with the Rasa clothing brand, can you just describe to us what the brand is and what's the ethos behind it?

Afsal Koya:

Rasa clothing brand. We are cutting edge urban streetwear. We try to carry the best lines in the urban street segment. We also try to make it very affordable for our customers. We have our main store, our flagship store, in Indianapolis. We have about close to 6,000 square feet and we try to carry as much as different sizes as possible. Our customers would say that when you go to Raza it's easy to find your sizes. For example, for the men's jeans we would have anything from size 28 all the way up to 42. So we try to carry a wide range of sizes.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang:

So then, just to recap, you have a streetwear brand with a physical presence. 6,000 square feet, which is pretty big footprint for an independent brand, so you must have hundreds of styles. I can imagine as a customer, it could be potentially easy to get lost with such an assortment in the retail store.

Afsal Koya:

That's true, but a lot of our customers, they are loyal to certain brands. For us, a customer who is used to buying, let's say, you know, a focus brand, for example. They like the fit, they like how it feels, they're comfortable. So they tend to come and, you know, just go straight towards that where we have the focus brand merchandised. We probably have about 25, 30 major brands on the store and they all have a certain following, almost like a cult-like following. They can't wait to see what kind of merchandise this particular designer brings in the next season, and so on.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang:

You mentioned earlier. You know those little pebbles that you try to shift every day. I guess that Pritesh and AMA is one of those pebbles that have been on your journey. Did you meet Pritesh at a sourcing trade show as well?

Pritesh Kanani:

Yeah, we met at the sourcing trade convention Right.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang:

So you guys met at sourcing trade show in America. You found this little pebble that is Pritesh and AMA and his body scanning fit and virtual try-on solution and AMIA and his body scanning fit and virtual try-on solution. You've been working with AMIA for the past year now. The technology why did you decide to integrate such technology into your retail experience? What was that little pebble that you wanted to shift along the way?

Afsal Koya:

I think having an AI mirror greatly enhances the fit experience for the customer. And also, you know, time is the most precious commodity we have right now in our society. So if a customer can use an AI mirror and find their fit and style without having to lug all their bags to the dressing room and trying it on and all that, it makes the buying decision much easier for the customer. And personally, you know, when I shop also, I hate trying something on, I'd rather return it, take it home and try it on and return it rather than trying it in the dressing room. So that's and it cuts a couple of steps into the customer's buying decision. And we have the AI mirror right in front of our store in Castleton Square Mall. And even customers who don't enter the store but who are walking by, they love to stay in front of the AI mirror and you know, see how the different clothes look on them and so on. The AI mirror also brings a novelty aspect into the retail and makes the customers want to come into the store.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang:

And was this your first time trying such a technology in store?

Afsal Koya:

Yeah, this was the first time we were trying this technology and we have had AI mirror for about six to eight months now Pritesh.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang:

how did you convince somebody like Afzal to integrate your technology into the mutual system? What exactly did you integrate into the resources to give our listeners some understanding as to what's happening here?

Pritesh Kanani:

It was less of a conviction but it was more mutual, Like meeting.

Pritesh Kanani:

Afzal just demonstrated and clicked the use case for me for having an in-person streetwear-focused AI mirror.

Pritesh Kanani:

In this case the customers are technologically savvy in the sector, very obsessed with how they look in particular styles and, as Afzal mentioned, the process is time sensitive.

Pritesh Kanani:

It was an instant conviction for both of us that this is the right use case to begin with and to experiment, and Afzal's experimental nature, or moving the pebbles as we say, was the driving force for us to, you know, put together a small field trip in the Castleton Square space and put it out. So in about eight hours, I believe, Nageza, Afzal and I we spun up a small display together. We took the dimensions and Afzal was like all right, let's, let's, you know, go together to an electronic store and, you know, select the display. So Afzal was with me throughout the process of selecting the display, putting together the space constructs and then working through an exact momentum to create the virtual try-on audience and drive the traffic. So that exercise gave us instant clarity that we should start this experiment and try it out for a few months during the summer and then, thanks to Nageza, we were able to also monitor and see how people are reacting in that case. So the process was very organic.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang:

So paint a picture for me, then I am a listener that may not be familiar with this specific mall. So, custinson Square Mall, what can I expect when I come past that retail?

Afsal Koya:

storefront. We do have a big retail front, all glass windows, so you can prominently see the big screen which acts like a mirror and as you pass in front of it, suddenly you have clothing being put on you and you can turn around and you can choose different SKUs and see how you look in different and a lot of times customers they stay outside, they just see how they look. Especially the younger generation, they love staying in front of it, see how they look in different merchandise and that also helps bring some of the customers into the store. But people are fascinated by being able to be in front of a mirror, of being able to be in front of a mirror, and they're just fascinated by this new technology that different clothes can be tried on without actually physically trying them on.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang:

So it sounds like one of those technologies that just grabs your attention as you're literally just walking outside. You may not be expecting it, and you mentioned that. I saw that the younger generations are also intrigued by it as well, which, of course, being a younger generation, I can just imagine all of them taking their telephones out, as well their mobile phones out, and taking videos of themselves trying on these digital garments. Is that correct? Sometimes does that happens?

Afsal Koya:

Yes, that's very true. Yes, it happens all the time, yeah, and it also becomes a conversation piece where you know the kids, you know they're talking to each other and they're sometimes calling their friends who might be shopping on the other end of the mall, say, hey, you need to come over here, check this, check this AI mirror, it's pretty cool, and so on.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang:

So it definitely brings traffic into the store I really like there, pritesh, where you told us a story of how you set the whole thing up. You literally went to the tech store with Avso to get the screens, which I think is a very interesting way to approach it Because, again, magic mirrors are not new in the retail industry. Because, again, magic mirrors are not new in the retail industry. They have been around for over a decade now. But quite often it's a retailer going to an agency or an existing hardware provider and being like I want this and you very much have to pre-order what they have and you very much have to give them a lead time to set everything up. But it sounds like in this situation it was very rough already in order to get the customer experience right.

Pritesh Kanani:

AirMirror is very much a do-it-yourself in-store virtual try-on solution as well. Afzal in that case he was researching a few magic mirrors, probably internationally went to a couple of trade shows and heard about it and he's like Pritesh you know, I'm a computer science graduate. I pretty much have, you know, some insight onto how this might be possible to do. But his ask was like hey, can you come into the store? And I would like to see what it takes to build an AI mirror experience. So that was very, you know, intriguing for me.

Pritesh Kanani:

So I come in day one, abdul and I, we, you know, we have breakfast, and then, you know, we discuss over breakfast like what, what should the store in the concept look like?

Pritesh Kanani:

So we do a walk, walk around the store and that gives. That gave both of us an idea, you know, working together, from my side, from my end, on the technology and from abdul's end, on what would be the right positioning of the brand. And after that we assembled a bunch of things to put together a display which was the right size, which had the right attributes, positioned, the right garments that people would love. For folks who do not know much about AI Mir, all it takes is an assembly of a software into any digital display, so it could be any device that you have within the store and with the proper connectivity. One of the things that we worked on eventually with Nagesa was to troubleshoot remotely. So if I am in Seattle and Nagesa is sitting in Indianapolis, we have a remote connectivity that we can log in and fix and iterate on the technology as and when we process the data.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang:

I think, for any listeners that are listening to this episode and are thinking about deploying such technology, you don't have to have the whole thing figured out before approaching a tech provider. You can literally do it, you know there, and then with some, you're like protest along the way, and I think when we come to talking about technology within retail or fashion tech, I think many people are too scared to put that step forward and what I call the innovation fear factor, which, quite clearly, as though you have gotten over that innovation fear factor, which, which is really interesting to see, I mentioned in the introduction that 61% of customers prefer retailers that have AR experiences embedded into them, and you kind of alluded to this earlier, afzal. But what kind of impact have you seen within the retail experience and your retail in general, since you've actually integrated it into the experience we have?

Afsal Koya:

seen more traffic in the store and online. Definitely, I think, as a small retailer, to compete with the department store and bigger giants in the business. Sometimes implementation of new technology can be a leveling factor. You know, and the online websites and all that came along. This was a way that we could compete with the bigger guys with the bigger budgets, and I think Pratish has a product that's quite affordable to implement for small retailers. One advantage of being a small retailer is that we can make decisions quickly. We don't have different layers of approval that's needed. When we see something is good, let's do it. Let's go out and do it. Anything that can help bring more visibility, traffic and make it more user-friendly. And if there's a way that technology can also save time for the customer, I think it's a big factor.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang:

And have you seen any impacts on your retail metrics, such as, for example, the conversion rates? Or have you seen a change in usage of your physical? You know we're all used to teaming rooms as well. Have you seen anything like that change?

Afsal Koya:

We see less people using the dressing room than before. We see less time in making decisions because now they already know what it looks on them, you know, they don't have to actually try it on and go in front of a mirror. So, yes, definitely does help increase sales and the time it takes to create that sale online as well as in-store.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang:

I don't know about you, gentlemen, but I hate using the physical changing rooms in any. I try to avoid as much as possible. Yeah, you're not alone.

Afsal Koya:

Yeah, I think I'm a little claustrophobic. So usually, unfortunately, dressing rooms are very small and you have your clothes to take off, you have to put the new clothes, and so on. What happens when you really like something, you try it on and then it doesn't look good or it doesn't fit. Well you know. So some of all these discomforts can be removed by using the AI mirror.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang:

In a city where I am, in Paris, sometimes the queues can get long just to go into the changing rooms. I imagine that's completely removed for you as well by having the VTO software in there. So then let's move on to the subject of privacy concerns. Obviously, when we're looking at virtual trial, we're also looking at taking measurements of the body and scanning the body to make that happen. Have customers ever expressed?

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang:

concern over privacy issues while using the technology in-store. So far we haven't had any issues. Well, that's good to hear that there's no concerns from the customers any issues? Well, that's good to hear there's no concerns from the customers. Because obviously if you're on a street level and there's people constantly going forward and people are seeing themselves on a screen, they might be alarmed at some point. So I guess, going to you, pritesh, how are you potentially addressing such concerns when you're developing the software?

Pritesh Kanani:

For in-store or in-person software. Whatever the software that runs is on the device. So that means that as and when people are looking at their own video, the frames that are created are only experienced by the end users. They're not stored anywhere on the cloud or they're not transmitted outside of the hardware that people see. So it's a very personalized experience that people have and they can be rest assured that nothing or none of this data that is collected is from their personalized view or aspect. And in case anyone has any objection, we already asked the user to review that. Hey, if you're coming in front of the mirror, it is only for your personal experience of trying a garment which is going to be overlaid on you.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang:

Just going back to our analogy of the pebbles, as with technology is continuously improving, tech also needs to have those pebbles shifted along in order to make the retail experience, or the omni-channel experience, as I alluded to in the introduction, even better. When it comes to virtual try-on, what improvements do you believe need to happen for it to be able to fully replicate the physical trying-on experience, and do you even think it's going to be able to replicate it or completely replace it in the future?

Afsal Koya:

I think at this point. Virtual try-ons sometimes struggle to show accurate color and texture under different lighting conditions. This can impact a customer's ability to judge the true appearance of items, which is especially important in streetwear, where bold colors and patterns are popular. I think the current models still lack representation of diverse body shapes and sizes, making it challenging for many customers to visualize how streetwear will look on. Them lies on individuality and self-expression, and companies are also investing in machine learnings, algorithms and AI models to stimulate different fabrics, how different fabrics behave, for example, research into fabrics physics, which can simulate the drape, the stretch and even airflow, giving customers a more realistic sensation of how items will move with them. So we need to see how the technology improves to address a lot of these concerns. I would look forward to a day when the AI mirror can completely form a solution to all these concerns, but it is a work in progress.

Pritesh Kanani:

Afzal's process is very much inclusive of the improvements and the roadmap, so all of the aspects requires he's very understanding of the aspect that this would require complex physics and simulations and advanced machine learning modules on the fly and he's ready to implement this practically.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang:

So at the moment we can't fully replace the in-store changing room, but it's work in progress, as you gentlemen say. The issues that you say there aren't, honestly, exclusive to virtual try-on software. We see these same problems happening in digital fashion as well, for example, in the software design software, style3d, we have Chlo3D, we have Browseware. They all try to address the same issues and previously on the podcast show we actually had the CTO from Style3D speaking trying to solve these exact issues. They're getting there and with the computation power improving, the graphic cards improving as well, it is getting there. It is a work in progress but it's not yet fully like a physical garment, so I think only time will tell as to how advanced we can get. So let's just think about them in an ideal world. Looking to the future, afzal, how do you see the virtual try-on technology shaping the future retail experiences, especially for streetwear in your category?

Afsal Koya:

I believe the future of virtual try-on technology will bridge the gap between online and offline retail, making shopping more interactive and personalized. Online, it'll help customers visualize fit and style with greater accuracy, reducing uncertainties and return rates, while boosting confidence in purchases.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang:

And Pritesh. How long do you need to make all of that happen for ourselves?

Pritesh Kanani:

I personally think we're already at a stage where virtual try-on is, even if incomplete, assistive to our shoppers and customers. They can at least get a ballpark estimate of how close this style is to me at this point and then use that as assistive technology to help make the decisions that they want. I believe, you know, it could be probably even a year or two to get the realism that we require, given the AI advancements that we have at this point in time, but the value of the product is something that we certainly are trying to tap into.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang:

Okay, pritesh, I'm going to hold you that, and 12 months down the line, we're going to have you back on the show and we'll see how much progress you've made then. So let's get this conversation wrapped up, afzal, with a quick fire round of questions. So the first answer that comes to your head are you ready? Yes, in-store fitting rooms or virtual try-on apps? Virtual try-on apps, ar mirrors or smartphone-based virtual try-on.

Afsal Koya:

AI mirror. Fit like a glove or fit to comfort.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang:

Fit to comfort. Favorite thing about owning a fashion brand Freedom. Best tip that you have for wannabe fashion entrepreneurs um, if you want to go fast, go alone.

Afsal Koya:

If you want to go far, have a team thank you so much for your time, gentlemen.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang:

Thank you very much.

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