Build It Series: Pivoting in Fashion Business with Beatrice Newman

MODE Pivots into Beyond Form Education:
Beatrice Newman, the creative force behind online fashion education platform Mode, chats in this episode what it means to pivot a fashion business. Exclusively on today's episode she reveals the launch of Beyond Form Education, a groundbreaking initiative bridging the gap between academia and the fashion industry.

Data-Driven Pivoting in the Fashion Industry:
We discuss how data-driven decisions and user feedback are revolutionising fashion education in a post-pandemic world. As the desire for in-person experiences resurges, Peter and Beatrice share insights on creating a global learning canvas that spans entrepreneurship, innovation, technology, and design.

Episode highlights:

• The power of adaptability in reshaping fashion education.
• Leveraging data and feedback for pivotal business decisions.
• Bridging the academia-industry gap in the fashion world.
• The importance of a supportive team and continuous learning.
• Exploring diverse opportunities beyond traditional fashion roles.

Learn about Beyond Form Education: beyondform.io/education
Connect with Beatrice: linkedin.com/in/korlekie

Chapters

• 0:00 Pivoting in Fashion Education
• 10:02 Navigating Pivots in Education
• 25:35 Fashion Education

Transcript

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 0:00

Hello, I'm Peter Jeun Ho Tsang, founder and CEO of Beyond Form, and welcome to the special series Build It, where I speak to founders and their clients as to how they're building fashion technologies. This series gives you a glimpse into topics such as personal struggles, technical challenges, working in fashion and more. On today's episode, I'm speaking to Beatrice Newman, who we've had on the podcast show previously. Regular listeners will know her as the CEO and founder of Mode, an online fashion education platform. Today, we're speaking about the notion of pivoting, and we have a very special announcement how Mode has now pivoted into beyond form education. So what did we learn along the way and why did we decide to pivot?

Beatrice Newman: 0:46

How we embrace pivoting is to really use and try and understand the story by the metrics and the data, because you wouldn't just pivot for the sake of pivoting either. There's always going to be something that has been shown to you or revealed to you that will sort of make you think or sit down and be like it makes sense to actually do that. The task of doing it is probably what's the daunting one, but in it it could be, I think, a positive change and I think it's really telling what we need to know.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 1:15

Let's get this conversation going with Beatrice on today's episode of Venturing Into Fashion Tech. How are you today, beatrice?

Beatrice Newman: 1:32

I'm doing so. Peter, how are you?

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 1:33

I'm very good, thank you. Nice to have you on the podcast show again today.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 1:35

Well, we have a very big announcement, but before we get stuck into it, I want to set the scene for our listeners, which today's episode is about startups pivoting their business models. Some estimates suggest that over 90% of successful startups have pivoted at some stage in their life, pivoting being a term that describes a business changing their business model in some way. A study found that startups that pivot at least once or twice have 3.6 times better user growth than those that don't. For example, office Apparel Maker, ministry of Supply, successfully pivoted their products and brand in just 45 days, using a scrum framework which is 12 times faster than the industry number. 12 to 18 months. So fashion brands can do it. So fashion brands can do it. Fashion can do it and they can do it very quickly as well. For emerging fashion brands. You know, when you're leaning at agile, it's expected that you do it even quicker than that.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 2:37

So when it comes to fashion education, pivoting is also crucial, as in like the universities, as students now have different needs and high expectations of what their learning experience should be. So this comes onto the subject of you, beatrice, and the subject of mode. We've had you on the show previously talking about our online fashion education platform called Mode. However, we have since pivoted. We recently decided to transform Mode into Beyond Form Education. Can you tell our listeners what that is and how it happened?

Beatrice Newman: 3:13

Yeah, sure, so maybe just a little bit. You know, mode helped prove that there's a need in a market. They really support and facilitate graduates and startup businesses navigating the space between, for the majority, academia and also the industry. And as we developed the findings um, mode became more involved in the academic process and we really sought to bridge a bridge up for the academic world into the creative industries.

Beatrice Newman: 3:44

Due to resourcing and timetabling as well as limited time to really allow students to absorb their learning, batemode became or acted as that filler and a guide that consulted and entailed on next steps and with doing that we had we're still in a lot of schools, universities getting in touch with us at BeyondForm sort of requesting for some form of integration. So it really made sense to then re-develop Mode into BeyondForm fashion, tech and studio program and develop really the education side, which also supported in some shape or form on the consultation or mentoring or startups. We were beginning to get a lot of startups also applying to the tech incubation program and so I think in general it just really made sense that with this sort of growing entity in BeyondForm and that we were to create Beyond Form education, and I think Beyond Form education really sits at the juncture of the studio's creative work, guiding schools, aspiring founders and training centers in the field of fashion tech, and it really offers progressive reform within the creative industries and building global learning opportunities in entrepreneurship, innovation, tech and design.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 5:10

And obviously this decision hasn't just come like overnight. We have had, obviously, insights and feedback to have led to that decision. When we launched Mode, it was during the pandemic COVID, where obviously online education exploded because nobody could leave their houses. But what we've seen, obviously post-pandemic, is that students are travelling and that they're wanting to have their in-person experience. What are your thoughts about that?

Beatrice Newman: 5:41

I mean it's sad that it took a world pandemic to, I think, help us to shift our thinking towards maybe what we should have been doing anyway. So I'm not really surprised or shook at it and I think it's a really important development, especially when we're thinking about sort of cultures and how that really has a huge impact on developing successful fashion business. And by fashion business I'm not necessarily just talking about creative design, you know, we're talking about business structures, we're talking about services that are offered in the creative industry. It's that time and time again you're sort of getting issues with people not really comprehending or understanding the cultural elements of it in its diversity and in its uniqueness, of the shift of the type of customer and maybe also what the customer is looking for. So I think being able to, I think, shift, to get out there, move into different spaces, learn from different cultures, ideologies and framework has really supported the redevelopment of mode now into beyond, for education, and we're really where we wanted to take education and the next few years so drumroll for everyone that's listening.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 6:56

So obviously, mode has been fully consumed by this new entity, shall we say. But let's strip it right back. So, now that we have the business update, we have talked a little bit about pivoting as a business model as well. Let's go back to you as an entrepreneur. As I said right in the introduction, 90% of successful startups have pivoted at some point in their life. But of course, behind those pivots are founders and they've had to come to terms with that. As an individual, the notion of pivoting is not necessarily that understood within the world of fashion. Can you take us through what that meant for you as an individual?

Beatrice Newman: 7:37

Pivoting- is a really, really hard one, and it sounds easy enough, especially when you're on the outside looking in. Sometimes things just make sense. But I think, as an entrepreneur, when you're so close to the business, you really find that the difficulty in wanting to pivot or need to pivot comes from the founders or people who are working in a specific business structure. It comes down to project attachment. You know, we tend to not want to move forward until we feel like we have completed a task, and for anyone who has started their own business, you would have maybe developed a roadmap, and that roadmap would take a year, two years, sometimes three years or so, on and so forth, and a very specific thing until afterwards you realize you're taking a longer time to get there. Or, whilst you're on this journey, you realize this is not necessarily where you want to take the business and in order to make a shift or change.

Beatrice Newman: 8:36

This is where I guess pivoting comes in, and that can just be a very difficult thing to do, because you've been on a journey, on a sort of type of road, for a very, very long time and there are so many other metrics that you then need to consider, such as now, if you do pivot. Is it really going to take you where you want to go? Is it going to be supportive of future long-term development, or is the short term? And if it is short term, you know how are you able to pivot back again to where you need to be so that you're not really losing traction?

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 9:07

And what emotions did you feel, beatrice?

Beatrice Newman: 9:09

It's really daunting because you just don't know if you're making the a better position to pivot a lot more easily because not much is at stake. And challenging thing altogether because you're not really just dealing with yourself as a single entity or founder or person in the higher echelons of the business, but you then need to consider those who are around you, sort of employees, how this might fit, and so I think daunting would probably be the mushroom I would run with the word daunting.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 10:02

I think maybe it's daunting, but also okay, pivoting into something that isn't necessarily 100% proving.

Beatrice Newman: 10:10

Yeah, it's where kind of moving away from the old into something new and the unknown as well at the same time yeah, I think, perhaps not to give it some positivity daunting is a feeling, but it's a feeling moving towards positivity, and that you're only daunted by something because you're you're scared and you're not too sure of what it's going to look like, but then I think, in that sort of fear moment you're also, there's an excitement there, there's a refreshing.

Beatrice Newman: 10:40

I think it kicks you to really try and get to really how you build on that success, so that make change really means that we have to be comfortable with change, and a lot of the time we're not.

Beatrice Newman: 11:13

Let's just be real and I think then perhaps be considerate of the factors around that contribute to necessary change, be it political, economical, which are some of the huge drivers towards people or businesses having to make pivots.

Beatrice Newman: 11:30

I think how we embrace pivoting is to really use and try and understand the story behind the metrics and the data, because you wouldn't just pivot for the sake of pivoting either. There's always going to be something that has been shown to you or revealed to you that will sort of make you think or sit down and be like it makes sense to actually do that. The task of doing it is probably what's the daunting one, but in it it should be, I think, a positive change and I think it's really telling. What we need to know, you know, is disrupting the model supportive of the business's gains long term. As I mentioned, it's good to try and lay out the pros and cons, obviously before you make the move, but you know, ultimately seeing pivoting in a positive light, because it's supposed to benefit your business at the end of the day and the services that you offer, I think when you see it in a positive light, it will really allow us to move forward with greater confidence.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 12:22

So you were not in the corner of the room crying, basically when I first flirted the idea with you.

Beatrice Newman: 12:27

No, not at all. I think you're more in the. You're not in a corner at all. I think this is where you surround yourself with a team and with the people who have been supportive of you and understand your journey, because it's everyone pitching in to say, right, this is what we need to do. How do we do it? And let's do it together. So, no, daunting is, I don't think, a negative, crying in a corner. I think it's more daunting as we're really scared, but we, it has to happen, let's do it, you know and you mentioned their metrics and data and obviously we did gather some along the way.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 13:07

We have pivoted and more has pivoted. However, we did actually achieve a successful partnership with the university of east london. We supported their graduate engagement activity. Can you take us through that project, the metrics and what insights we could actually glean from that?

Beatrice Newman: 13:24

yes, sure, um, so um. I think it's important to mention, obviously, first, on the surface, universities um are providing education, but they are also working as a business structure, but that might not be known to a lot of people who work outside of academia. So, basically, there are a number of metrics involved that universities need to hit. Certain growth metrics, be it brand awareness, be it lead table, so on and so forth. Certain growth metrics, be it brand awareness, be it lead tables, so on and so forth. So one of those metrics, as you mentioned, is called the Graduate Outcome Survey, otherwise known as GOS. It's something that we have particularly embedded in any sort of metric form or data within UK universities I'm not sure what it's like in other parts of the world and this metric really helps external bodies understand what courses that universities have provided in regards to the best career outcomes for their students and creative industry.

Beatrice Newman: 14:20

What you find is, the creative industries itself is just notorious for suffering in this data collection activity, and not because graduates from universities don't have great outcomes activity, and not because graduates from universities don't have great outcomes, but just because students are quite bad in not answering to the survey because it's just within their nature or something that is at the forefront of their mind, whereas I think where you're on sort of more academic courses, there's more of a structural form. So I think answering to surveys and also knowing what your career route looks like, it makes it more easier for for these sort of students to to answer to them, whereas with the creative industries your career it's not necessarily a shore one. You're sort of dipping and diving, ebbing in, ebbing out into many different forms, and I feel like creative students don't necessarily have to interpret within a survey. It's not really great in that sense of form. So yeah, basically it provides them negative feedback which feeds into really bad negative press for creative courses across the country or the world that creative courses are what the UK government calls Mickey Mouse courses and courses don't really support creative careers, which we all know me and Peter for sure. No, it's not true.

Beatrice Newman: 15:40

And so this is where Mode really stepped in to support UEL on their GLS metrics, and what we did was to improve response rates as well as also supporting the graduates with navigating education into a more industrial way of thinking about their acquired skills and fashion. 15 in one year and, I think, similar in the other, so a total population of about 30 students that came through Mode. It was an online course as well as providing consultancy in a forum, which I think was very beneficial to the students, and the provision provided UEL with good positive output in a GOS survey based on the student response of taking the course and obviously then feeling confident enough to fill out the survey. The survey. So basically, for fashion design alone, we got a positive score of almost 70% the GOS year in 1-22, which was up almost 30% for the GOS survey in 2021, so really huge benefits there.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 16:44

So a pat on the back for you, beatrice, but I think that's a really good example. You know, we did a small test with the previous prototype. We had some positive results, but we knew that pivoting was still needed to go for the long term business model and the business that we wanted to have. And when you said that obviously previously you're pivoting with data, that data doesn't necessarily mean bad data. It just means it's forcing you to reflect in some way whether there's good or bad data. We had some good data and, as you said, there actually we contributed significantly to the UEL GOS survey outcome. But does that mean we have a robust business?

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 17:23

We knew that we needed to do more and I think UEL is a really good example of brick and mortar red brick academic institution and, in this scenario, has a fashion school within it and, as I said right in the start of the introduction of this episode, fashion education institutions also have to adapt to what their customers, ie the students, are demanding and in some ways pivoting in their own rights as well. So I recently read an article on the business of fashion about how it's so important for university to hire all-star professionals to make that pivoting, to keep that business fresh and so forth and, most importantly, to keep the students inspired and motivated and, of course, attract students to the institution in the first place. Why do you think it is so important and what do you think that means for the traditional lecturer role?

Beatrice Newman: 18:16

I'd take this with a I don't want to say a kindle stock, because I do think having all-star professionals, you know, has some importance or relevance. I think it's really just about um how it's embedded into the curriculum. Because you can have an all-star cast. It doesn't necessarily mean it's going to do anything for the metrics of the university. It's pretty different from student satisfaction and just sort of general experience in a classroom for the students. So I think we need to be very careful here on what type of data or metric we're collecting to prove that point. But all in all, yes, I agree with having any sort of all-star professional embedded within a curriculum. It's going to boost morale, going to um, want students to engage and you have a role model of you know, someone to look up to, and that the fact that they're offering their time it allows you to get closer to um some of the issues and sure these other professionals have loved to have heard or seen when they were a student.

Beatrice Newman: 19:19

Um, I think, going back to my point of like, how the professional is brought in, you know, has a huge impact on whether it will support the university. It's just retention engagement. So what we found, particularly at UPL, is that it's better to integrate into the curriculum as opposed to like touch, and this is why I think beyond form education is also really well placed as we have access to industry professionals with valuable, valuable skill sets that are integrated into the curriculum, learning as part of our overall offering and you mentioned there beyond from education being placed at the intersection of commerciality and commercial activities, and then academia, and I do think it's about enriching all of the learning experience, whether that you know more of a formal degree or whether it's a boot camp or a professional training workshop in some way.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 20:15

A boot camp or a professional training workshop in some way, having those anecdotes helps to enrich that experience. I think, regardless of what you're learning or what stage you are at in terms of the education system, you aren't all stars or beatrice. I can imagine that actually, the students that you've come across are very indebted to the fact that you can bring colicky and and you know what you're doing as a practitioner into those conversations.

Beatrice Newman: 20:36

Yeah, absolutely, and and I think the reason why I say slightly with a pendulum so it's really just about how you let you know professionals into curriculum is because, if I'm being honest with you, I'm able to take my industry um expertise and meld it into more of an academic form so that I'm not only just, I guess, aspiring and influencing but I'm also embedding some form of design, thinking or knowledge back to the students so that they're able to take on board whatever consultation they've had with me to practice for themselves.

Beatrice Newman: 21:13

I think maybe that's what I'm going to talk about is that threshold between a professional within academia and a professional as they are within their own world. Within their own world, that might sort of suffice. A guest lecturer you come in and you're inspired by them, but that's really where your support in education goes. It doesn't go anywhere else and it really falls back onto the students to do a little bit more digging before they get to the point of you know how they can get to, you know where you are as a professional, as opposed to the other way around, where I can really support them in not just looking or being inspired at me.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 21:50

So let's zoom back out, then, and back to the notion of a company pivoting. Do you think it is time for fashion schools to pivot their approach to how they deliver learning experiences?

Beatrice Newman: 22:03

Yeah, absolutely. I don't know if you're seeing it now where you're based, peter, but I'd say definitely within the UK and most certainly in London, with the issue of Brexit has hugely impacted.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 22:15

Let's not talk about Brexit, Beatrice, Since Arizona. Look, you can do, you can do. Yes, of course.

Beatrice Newman: 22:22

The huge impact on even just getting international European students, and you've got all of these laws that were put in place by the previous government and now the influence of American election.

Beatrice Newman: 22:37

So all of these what we call political factors are not creating great grounds for creative courses, particularly in UK based universities.

Beatrice Newman: 22:48

And so you're having cut budget budget, you're having lack of resources, whereas what really needs to happen and be facilitated is how we can work together to create a more, a communal environment and sharing of resources. I think it's so crucial for longevity of a university to ensure that they are building robust future forward learning experiences, and a great example is the on Onform Education's most recent collaboration, really excited to announce, is Paris Delamode in Indonesia, and you know, part of our program offering is basically doing exactly what I've just said, and it's offering fashion, cultural experiences in the likes of Paris, chicago and London, and these experiences really help shape the minds of future innovators and towards being open, more understanding and critical to their approaches and as creators and entrepreneurs. And I think what a lot of universities are worried about is just their bottom line, but in that where you're able to offer something quite unique that someone else is not able to offer. You have really fruitful collaborations that are not just of a benefit to everyone's bottom line, but also to the benefit of the experience of the students.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 23:57

In regards to Indonesia, so if you are in Southeast Asia, beyond Form is coming to you very soon, in the new years. I think, on that point, though, cross-border collaboration is so key, and had we not pivoted mode into offline experience as a new way of learning, this collaboration probably wouldn't have happened the way it is going to be rolled out. I don't think so. If you could step back in time then, beatrice, thinking back to when you were a fledgling student many moons ago I won't say how many moons what would you have done differently? What would you have liked to have done differently?

Beatrice Newman: 24:38

It's a good question. I think, knowing what I know now, if I'm being brutally honest, I don't think I would have done anything differently, because those experiences have really helped shape the journey that I've been on and has really helped to shape and prepare me for the spaces that I'm in now. However, if I am having to be very, very critical, I think perhaps what we've been discussing today and it's just pivoting earlier, particularly where my own business journey is concerned and how this links in with my academic practice, and I think if we were going into me, giving anyone advice, as anyone training in the subject of fashion tech would be if you're not doing it already, you should really be getting out there and testing ideas, and this will really help ensure you're able to pivot a lot faster if needed and in the right direction, according to the data you would have collected, I think, on that point.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 25:35

Exploring as much as possible whilst you are a student is keen, the kind of what you're alluding to there. I can pretty share the same sentiment. You know, when I went to fashion school it was very much training to be a fashion designer, a creator, go get a job in a fashion house. As we've discussed previously on other episodes, that's extremely difficult. There are very few fashion design jobs for the number of fashion graduates out there and I think that whole notion of okay, yes, you're doing a fashion design degree, but actually you can pivot, you can explore other avenues along the way as well. I know which I did that soon of me personally, because it took six years to pivot. I love along that journey. I'm not saying I didn't learn valuable skills at the same time, but I think more exploration would have been helpful degree. So I just want to finish off this episode with a quick fire round of question bits. Just the first answer that comes to your head Are you ready? My company should work with BFE, which education, knowledge and research.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 26:39

Last skill you learned.

Beatrice Newman: 26:41

I'm learning every day so it's really hard to keep track, but maybe how to network properly, that's yeah, especially if you're shy and an introvert, that can be very difficult.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 26:51

Absolutely, and I'm both both top fashion capital to study in london, but I'm biased.

Beatrice Newman: 26:58

Maybe second would be paris best tip for embracing start some change surround yourself with critical friends or advisors be honest thank you so much for your time, beatrice.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 27:09

Thank you.