Venturing into Fashion Tech

Build It Series: Supercharging a Knitwear Production Empire Using Data with AM Group's Ahmed Altaf

• Beyond Form • Episode 55

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Producing Knitwear in Karachi:
Today's episode takes us to knitwear manufacturing straight from Karachi with Ahmed Altaf, CEO of AM Group, who shares his invaluable journey from academics to leading a family-run knitwear facility. Gain insights into what life is like in Pakistan's largest city and learn why Pakistan is a critical player in the global apparel market. Ahmed debunks common myths about working with knitwear manufacturers and highlights the benefits of a vertically integrated factory setup.

Transforming Outdated Processes:
The adoption of the WiMetrix system, sparked by the challenges of the COVID-19 pandemic, has revolutionised transparency and efficiency in AM's operations. For Ahmed, driving the shift towards a data-driven approach, redefining quality control, and setting new standards in the industry is what will keep his factory and his industry alive. Counting behemoths like Walmart as their clients, and receiving the Responsible Sourcing Certificate from the retailer, sheds light on the expectations and demands that brands are making on Pakistani fashion manufacturers. But is it working? Find out in this episode.

Find out more about AM Group: am-group.com.pk
Connected with Ahmed on LinkedIn.

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The show is recorded from Beyond Form, a fashion tech innovation platform. We build, invest, and educate fashion tech entrepreneurs and startups. We’d love to hear your feedback, so let us know if you’d like to hear a certain topic. Email us at podcast@beyondform.io. If you’re an entrepreneur or fashion tech startup looking for studio support, check out our website: beyondform.io

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang:

Hello, I'm Peter Jeun Ho Tsang, founder and CEO of Beyond Form, and welcome to the special series Build It, where I speak to founders and their clients as to how they're building fashion technologies. This series gives you a glimpse into topics such as personal struggles, technical challenges, working in fashion and more. On this episode, I chat with Ahmed Altaf, CEO of AM Group. On this episode, I chat with Ahmed Altaf, ceo of AM Group. I was really looking forward to this episode because AM Group is a knitwear production facility which is fundamentally very different to a factory that deals with woven garments. My past meant that actually, I only really knew about woven factories, so it was very interesting to see how he was talking about how working with a vertically integrated knitwear factory could be advantageous for his clients and how some of his clients get it wrong when working with a knitwear factory.

Ahmed Altaf:

To be honest with you. We don't like saying you're wrong to the client. If it's someone you know who understands the effort they were putting into the work, the styles, the psyche of the wearer, plus, obviously, most of these brands, by the way, we've been working with them for like 20-22 years and the thing with us is nobody told me or nobody told my father to put in this quality system. There hasn't been much where I feel like, okay, that's a very b ad. Sometimes, you know, I feel like that's a big man. Sometimes, you know, I feel like, like I said, like issues that we have with knits, fabric, like managing that, you know. Sometimes they're like okay, some tolerances are up, you know, up and down, you know. We have to like kind of explain it to them. Okay, like this in knits, this is a little awkward. So like I feel like these are little things.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang:

So, listeners, I have again with me today abdul, who we've listened to previously in our previous conversation. We have our special series with. We met tricks and today we're joined by ahmed altaf, who is one of the directors and a ceo am group. Abdul, do you want to say a quick hi to our listeners again? How are you? And Ahmed, very nice to have you on the show. How are you today? I'm good, looking forward to our conversation.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang:

We have yet to have specialists in knitwear speaking on the podcast show, so I think a lot of our listeners will be excited to listen about that. But before we get stuck into the conversation, I want to give some context about where you're located and about the knitwear industry as well. So AM Group is located in Karachi. It is the largest city in Pakistan and it's the 12th largest in the world, with a population of over 20 million people according to the 2023 census. So it's a very large city, indeed, much bigger than Paris or London.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang:

In terms of the value of knitwear in Europe, the imports are estimated at 25.8 billion euros, so it's a huge industry coming into the continent, making it a major apparel sub-segment. According to ITC trade rate statistics, in 2022, the European share of total world knitwear imports was as much as 34%, compared to 26% for the USA, and that's according to the Cbi ministry of foreign affairs, the 2023 study. I can imagine I imagine you export a lot of garments to our continent, to fashion brands here, so I'll be interested to see and here actually kind of look the kinds that you work with later on. In terms of knitted fabrics exports from pakistan, it totaled 48.3 million us dollars in 2023, although in 2022, it was actually much, much higher at 76.2 million US dollars. So it's a significant portion of exports, and that's according to trading economics. So some context there for our listeners.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang:

But before we get stuck into the fashion and market side of things, ahmed, I want to know more about your business journey. You studied supply chain and business. How did you go from that to running a knitwear production facility in Karachi?

Ahmed Altaf:

Okay, so basically this company in group of companies if you have five different units first one was in merchandise started in 2001. My father started that company and obviously since I've seen him since my childhood, you know, working textile I've seen the flair of textile on which enjoyed it. So you know I've always wanted to be in TechStat, even before I was actually going to university, my plan was always to get into TechStat. That's why I've been planning my degrees around that. So, yeah, I studied marketing and supply chain as soon as I was done Actually, I graduated during COVID. So I got lucky. I actually ended up here a lot earlier than I was supposed to. That's how I ended up starting Texta.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang:

And then growing up surrounded by your father as a businessman working in factories, what did that feel like? Was it always a sense of I really need to join the family business? Or you know, what did the entrepreneurial mindset come into?

Ahmed Altaf:

So I used to come. I used to come to the factory even before doing my challenge and I actually did little internships in different other textile factories. But when I used to come in, especially when I used to work with him actually, he made sure I didn't work with him for the first few years. He made sure I used to work with different kinds of dyeings and different knitting, different processes, that he would make sure that I would actually see, so I would understand what's going on and I just it. Just it felt like you know, this is something that we that's really important. You know the garments that we wear, the way we look, what quality and everything. I feel like there's so much that goes into it. There's so much that goes into it. There's so many people that are behind this entire process. I feel like that's what made it so special. I feel like garments are something that's you know. There's always going to be a demand for that.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang:

And then growing up in Karachi. I'll just give some context there to our listeners in the introduction. Very large city, what was it like?

Ahmed Altaf:

growing up as a child there. Just give some context to our listeners that may not know the city itself well, it's chaotic, it's huge. I mean infrastructure is, you know, it's about that, it's all right. But going up in karachi, obviously you know you have to be very sweet, smart. You have to, you know kind of like find your own way. You have to figure things out. But everybody's they're kind of like just funny. They have something to do with it's very busy, just like the city. Basically I I feel like I'm a reflection of the city. It's like I'm always running, always doing something. I always want to just keep moving forward. So I think that's that was my experience and that comes from the city actually.

Abdul Moiz sajjad:

So you know that's a very fast based city, but they have lovely food. I think he forgot to mention that. Yes, lovely food.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang:

One day I'll go over that. So then, in a nutshell, what does AM Group do specifically and what are the types of brands that you work with?

Ahmed Altaf:

AM Group of companies. We specialize in niche products and most of them I mean some of the bigger brands that people know about that we work with are Zara, pullet Bear, new Balance, fila, academy, bcg. These are some of the brands that we work with, so some of these are like retail brands. There's a lot, there's a big portion of our business that goes to college wear, resort wear, varsity wear in US specifically. So that's primarily what we do. We're a completely vertically integrated unit. Now. We do everything. We do dining in-house, we do printing in-house, we do house, we have our own. I mean almost all the processes are in-house now and we can. I mean we've expanded in the past few years and our quality has gone up to about 1 billion pieces.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang:

You mentioned there that you're vertically integrated. Some of our listeners may not be familiar with that term.

Ahmed Altaf:

What does that mean and why is that an advantage to be integrated in such a way? Okay, so what that means is that each process that happens in making this contract 90% of it actually 100% of it happens in-house, except like the chairs, and what that does is how. That gives me an advantage is that it helps me control each process based on the customer's requirements and to ensure that that process actually happens. For example, what are the biggest elements of being a vertically integrated unit? Fundamental of that is having your own dye cups. You know, because the color of the fabric and the fabric properties a lot of those are controlled in the dye cups. So when you have you know something like that, you know right as your own. You can make sure that the quality is better maintained.

Ahmed Altaf:

Dyes you're using, chemicals you're Everything is actually as per the buyer's standard when you outsource it. Sometimes you know it's harder to control that kind of level of quality because obviously we're in touch with the customer. We want to make sure the quality of the product is actually down to exactly what they're expecting. So when everything's happening in-house, we have our own quality systems that ensure that it is actually happening. I think that's one of the biggest things about having a vertically integrated setup. Plus, obviously, it helps with the cost and everything. Those advantages are also there.

Abdul Moiz sajjad:

I think quality and cost is one aspect, but I think what also puts that advantage is the speed to market, because the way I think quality and cost is one aspect, but I think what also puts that at an advantage is the speed to market, because the way lead times are changing, brands are focusing more on shorter runs and quicker runs and expecting quicker deliveries. I think that also really helps in that aspect.

Ahmed Altaf:

Absolutely. A lot of these buyers are moving towards 45 to 60, 45 days lead times and you need to have your own dying hours and we have everything in us to make so that you can actually meet those targets. Otherwise it's really tough because then if you're doing everything commercially, then you have to go after them. You know they have to prioritize things like that.

Abdul Moiz sajjad:

It's a huge hassle how long that time was used to be before being 45 days.

Ahmed Altaf:

Before it used to be 90 days, then it came down to 75, then it came down to 60 for repeat starts. Now we're talking about 45 days for repeat start.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang:

So it's cut down a lot because obviously fast fashion has gone up like eventually in a nutshell, if I am working with a vertically integrated factory facility like yours, I can then expect fatally times because everything is on site and it's easy to to push through the orders, efficiencies and qualities, because then you can check every stage of that process within the factory.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang:

So, in a nutshell, it makes sense actually for brands to try to find vertically integrated factories to work with. Just from my past days within production, that wasn't always the case. For example, the knitwear factory that we would work with, they would literally just be doing the confection part of the knitwear side of things and we would have to get the jersey fabrics, for example, from another fabric mill, and then that can cause quality issues and there might be delays because the fabrics might take, I don't know, a little bit longer than expected to go from the mill to the factory. But it sounds like you can do all of it, which is of course a plus point. On the series so far and I mentioned this in the the introduction we've only spoken to woven factories, woven garments that they deal with. Could you explain to us, though, from a production and foundational perspective, how a knitwear factory is fundamentally different to a woven factory and kind of what are some of the challenges that it can give to a brand?

Ahmed Altaf:

So fundamentally, obviously it all starts with the fabric.

Ahmed Altaf:

Say it's fabric you're talking about, like circular knitting, and the difference between those two different kinds of fabrics is like the handling of it, right, so the way it's constructed, that changes everything later on in the supply chain.

Ahmed Altaf:

Basically, I mean because knit fabrics you know there's a lot more variations. You know the weight can go up, the weight can go down. It's harder to control knit fabric compared to woven fabric because it's a lot more stable. So that is why you know that's like one of the biggest differences. And later on, obviously even the quality systems and the machinery that you get, everything has to be according to that. That's why you I feel like you'll see a lot more checkpoints in terms of fabrics in like a nits factory, for example, compared to woven, because the fabric is so much more stable everything you know it's. And even in like metagaster stitching, you know you need this specific kind of labor to make sure they can actually handle because some of them are slow, stretchy, some of them are not gsm high, low, you know, and that's why you need specific kind of labor to make sure that they can actually handle stitching of such garbances.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang:

I think these are like some of the fundamental differences between those two different kind of factors and then when you have a potential new client coming to work with you, do you have to educate them a lot as to, okay, you can't just approach working with us the same way that you do working with a woven factory. Do they always get that, or are there challenges that you need to get through with the customer as well?

Ahmed Altaf:

Yeah, so I mean one thing we always prefer working with the buyer's director, because what that does is in NITs it's all about. I feel like generally it's good to be transparent. Our policy is to make sure the client knows everything Right, because, especially in NITs, we don't want any last minute surprises. We don't want any of that. So we actually go through the effort of making sure that they actually know everything that's going on and we actually make them understand that this is why it's happening and obviously we want to make sure that we put in 100% effort to kind of rectify that but at the same time try to explain it to them that this can't, for example, 3% variation in the GSM, things like that.

Ahmed Altaf:

Obviously there's a certain mark of over the years. There's some market practices as well. I mean, even buyers have understood that it's a little bit different. So they have some understanding as well, and we actually prefer letting them know that this is what's going on, sometimes, even mostly beforehand as well. We let them know during the development phase of any style. We let them know that these are some kind of risks that might happen. So maybe we can vote for an all-day option or if you want to go with that and you know just like, give them a clear picture and I feel like you know, there's a lot more awareness now and they also understand the differences between like it's uh garment and woven factories.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang:

And then, abdul, you've been working now with am group for three years and we just started chatting before we started ClickRecord with this fact sheet facility From a network versus woven. Does that affect the WeMetrix system in any way? Can you explain to us a little bit about that?

Abdul Moiz sajjad:

I think the principles remain pretty much the same. At the end of the day, you want that machine method and obviously the criteria you are tracking, but obviously TELM has its own complications and uh, both nips has its own complications then is usually, you know, divided in sections in the factories because they have different parts coming together, is all the garments usually run in single line. So the basics remain the same. Obviously there are a little bit tweaks when it comes to the metrics, but I think I would like to take this opportunity to talk about one thing about AM the fact that we started working with them somewhere around three years ago.

Abdul Moiz sajjad:

I think this new and young leadership of AM was the very reason that they ended up becoming one of the first customers of vMetrix, in Karachi at least. I mean, I really appreciate the vision of Ahmed and the AM group when it comes to maintaining the traceability and transparency across an organization that these guys just don't hold off from investing in traceability and data-driven solutions. So I think that really matters. So you see the young generation coming in business, and I think Ahmed can add more onto that that how did he have to convince the stakeholders in the business for implementing the system? But I think that that's one key area. Where I really enjoy working with AM is their clear-cut vision on maintaining the transparency and flexibility through the school system. So, amit, please educate us. What sort of challenges do you have to face internally before onboarding on a journey like this? I'll tell you from the start.

Ahmed Altaf:

We both started. Once I actually came when I joined the factory that was actually right in the middle of COVID. Actually it was the first year, so there was a lot of fluctuations. I'm telling you the entire process how it started like. How started it? Certainly towards like here tech and we were in the middle of COVID. There was a lot of fluctuations going on with like three, eight years. So the first thing I did was actually get an ERP Proper ERP that actually covered all the costs. So that was done. A lot of issues with that obviously, you know, nobody likes to be taught by the young guy who just came, but I think it was important. What that did was like that helped us understand at the time of shipping Sometimes, you know, but the demand during COVID was really high. So a lot of buyers are coming in. It's another order for the same size that you have it in shipped. What that ERP allowed me was to get the cost a lot faster To help them, you know, to obviously manage my risk as well. The price fluctuations were insane.

Ahmed Altaf:

Then we started an initiative, actually started this initiative called EM's Journey to Earth, industry 4.5. That's where Volumetrics came. Randomly, we went to this. There was an exhibition, I think, and we went there and I envisioned a system that will help me control quality and production at the same time. So we went there to check some things out. I thought, you know, I was like, you know, I wish there was machines that just let me know everything and that was happening in my life. So when I went there, I see a lot of voice was there and you know he was giving a demo. I mean, I just looked at it from far, I didn't go in there that much. I looked at it, I understood exactly what was going on. And then I got in touch with them and I think three years ago we started we like 200 machines first and, uh, now we have. Basically our entire group has those devices and what that does. The main thing about biometric system is that helps me create transparency throughout the entire, all of my lines, throughout my entire system.

Ahmed Altaf:

Before what used to happen is we had people who were doing inline inspections and inline inspections. But when I actually went to them and asked them okay, how many garments did you check, and what happened? Tell me, tell me exactly what went wrong. Anybody would just pick up a piece of paper, write the style, number of you or all that stuff and then make any kind of report, and I would have to just go on that. There was no way for me to make sure that these garments were actually checked or if there was any system that was. Unless you know and you can always add, like another manager, stuff happens. But I feel like that's not sustainable. So what that system allowed, especially and my father also had a role to play in this because he's a very quality centric guy he'll do anything, make sure the higher whatever we've committed to the buyer and the quality has to be talked. So he is really in for it.

Ahmed Altaf:

And we started with 200 machines. We saw the results. Now we have, and I can actually see the reports in real time. I have people right next to my office doing data analysis at all times, telling me exactly what's going on in factories that are like even like five kilometers or 10 kilometers away from me, and that helps me create some kind of an analysis. You know I can like I manage my data accordingly, my employees accordingly as well, making sure if they need some cleaning, you know, or like if they Anything, you know anything. That Everything that has to happen in real time. Basically, we have to manage, minimize our risks as well. I don't want to find out, you know, buyer doesn't have to. Buyer shouldn't have to tell me what's going on as long as it's in my factory. I need to make sure that anything that's shipped is 100% okay.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang:

And this system has allowed me to do that. How many machines do you have now in the entire group?

Ahmed Altaf:

So right now we have 1,500 machines and going forward.

Abdul Moiz sajjad:

Going forward on the, the machines and all that separate. Yeah, exactly.

Ahmed Altaf:

Moving on with the industry 4.1 journey. Now what we've done is obviously so. We've taken care of it, kind of, you know, improved. Obviously there's always room for improvement, but we've improved on our quality systems and the production. Now we're going towards.

Ahmed Altaf:

I'm working with Biometrics on the MEMS project, which will help me track down fabric all over my system. Especially, one of the biggest issues in working in Karachi is the resources. Basically, where my factory is, we don't even have a water line. We have to arrange water tanks. So we have to make sure that whatever resources we have, we manage them well, we don't overuse, use them efficiently. So now I'm working with them and having this device installed on all of my machines which will help me track down each fabric roll, each lot.

Ahmed Altaf:

It can help me see the chemical and the dyes and everything that's being used, how much of it has been used and the gas and all the resources that have been consumed by that process. Obviously, that helps me with the compliance aspect of it, but I feel like for me personally, that's secondary, because we're a part of the generation that actually does care about the environment and I just want to make sure that we don't actually overuse anything that we don't need, like water. We need to conserve, we need to save all these resources to be more sustainable, going forward as well. Now, it's not just about documentation. I feel like it's really important to survive as well, so you have to make sure that resources all the resources that are being consumed, you know are going to be true.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang:

I liked how Abdul there, ahmed, said that you are the newer generation of executive management and that was very much the kickstart of the digital transformation of AM group, and I think that is kind of what is needed in, you know, within the supply chain, within production, the world.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang:

Quite often, you know, I do have family and stuff outside as well and quite often they are very traditional. They want to stick to kind of what they know and the process of that they do know, and I do think it takes, you know, not necessarily youth is the answer, but something that comes in with a more modern perspective and a more contemporary view of how things can be done and the thing that's obviously needed. And obviously, in your case, I'm actually your proof in the point there that you know you want to make a little bit different with some of the strategies that you're deploying, but in terms of the certifications are made, you have many that are linked with AM Group Thinking about sustainability, thinking about transparency and traceability, some of those themes you just talked about there. One that really caught my eye was the Walmart Responsible Sourcing Certificate. Obviously, walmart is a huge company that we all know around the world. How have such brands like Walmart, for example, helped you on your sustainable innovation journey and ambitions.

Ahmed Altaf:

How they've helped us, obviously. They've given us exact goals. They have given us a clear picture on exactly what they expect from their suppliers of this, and that has obviously helped us as well with, you know, including that in our roadmap. Like I said, you know, I've always aspired to be more environmentally friendly myself as well. That's why I want to make the company exactly like that. But these certifications help us stay on track, make sure that if we're missing out on anything, they can help us guide us. They've given us exact APIs as well and exact rules as well that we can work with. I think that's one of the biggest things that they sort of faced with that, and they've also, I'm so sorry. They've also made us understand the importance of being sustainable in the future.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang:

In terms of your partnership with WeMetrics, for example, that whole transparency and traceability. How has Abdullah and his team helped to feed into your strategy there? I mean, they've been spot on.

Ahmed Altaf:

They've been here, they've been working with me, they understand. The biggest thing is especially Abdul. It's hard to find people in Pakistan who can understand their vision, a lot of these systems. When I talk about the implementation aspect of these systems, it's a whole other conversation. There are a lot of issues that we face, so it's rare to find people who actually understand your vision and that's one of the biggest things about it. So Abdul understood exactly what I was expecting from this system and he made sure that his team understood that and they gave us results exactly like that. To be honest with you, they've actually, like you know, I worked with a few other tech companies as well, but the kind of you know what he achieved it helped me understand. Okay, in Pakistan, other tech companies that I'm working with can also achieve the same kind of results.

Abdul Moiz sajjad:

People are getting this from what I'm saying. We're really getting busy in there.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang:

Yeah, it sounds like it's working so far. And then, just going back to what I said right at the start of the conversation, over 25 billion euros worth of imports of niche garments are coming into the European continent, so it's a huge number Exports are coming into the european continent. So it's a huge number exports are coming from pakistan. So I think it's really important that western brands and brands on this side of the world really understand, okay, how are the operations running in pakistan with the factories there? How, I know, are they differing? Which ones are being more modern, being more sustainable and so forth? And it sounds like you really have really integrated that into the core of your business proposition and also your values as well as a factory. So then you know, some of your clients include Zara, new Balance, fila. Staying on that subject of being a responsible manufacturer, that subject of being a responsible manufacturer do they all differ in terms of criteria and what they're looking for in terms of sustainability or ethics? How do you deal with all of these different requirements?

Ahmed Altaf:

In terms of sustainability, I think they're all more or less on the same page. I feel like West is behind in the sustainability aspect, but they're also catching up. I think one of the biggest ones that everyone's on board now is Pakistan Air Corps, but I feel like, overall, the expectations now in terms of being sustainable, I feel like they're more there's not more difference?

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang:

and do you ever get a potential client and they come at you with so many demands that you don't want to work with them?

Ahmed Altaf:

what have been some of the more challenging things that you've had to deal with with clients, without, of course, naming any names, just to be honest with you, we don't like saying no to the client If it's someone who understands the effort that we're putting into our business, the sales, the psyche of it, plus, obviously, most of these brands, by the way, we've been working with them for like 20, 22 years and the thing with us is nobody told me or nobody told my father to put in this priority system. I feel like most of the times we're actually ahead of the curve. We have a sense of what's going on in the market Before our clients tell us to do that we actually go ahead. So, to be honest with you, there hasn't been much where I feel like, okay, that's a very bad.

Ahmed Altaf:

Sometimes, you know, I feel like, like I said, like issues that we have with knits, fabric, like managing that. You know, sometimes they're like, okay, some tolerances are up, you know, up and down, you know we have to like kind of explain it to them. Okay, like this in nits, this is a little hard to achieve. So, like I feel like these are little things. But apart from that, in terms of like certifications, compliance systems and all, I have not heard any extreme expectation that we don't already have here. No client of mine told me to put in this quality system. Nobody had those kind of expectations. But you know, obviously we want to make sure that our clients actually get the best. If there is something that can help us improve their product, we want to do it.

Abdul Moiz sajjad:

So, ahmed, nobody understands manufacturing better than you. Obviously, you own a factory. You have a vertically integrated setup. What do you think the fashion world needs to accept some changes in order to actually be talking about it In the broader horizon. What do you think are the steps that the fashion industry must take, steps towards so that it is actually possible for, like, I should say that it is more feasible for manufacturers to make this entire value chain system?

Ahmed Altaf:

yeah. So, regarding becoming more sustainable, I feel like we need to start the waste management that's happening on the solar side, because I feel like it's not just about the manufacturer becoming sustainable. This is something that we need to work with. Everybody needs to work with it. So we need to have better policies in terms of waste management from the consumer side.

Ahmed Altaf:

A lot of brands have this policy of revamping the product. There has to be some kind of incentive for the consumer as well to make sure, like you know, make sure that the product doesn't just go to waste. You know it can be reused, it can be used, and we also need to look more towards, like, for example, regenerated yard. We offer a lot of those solutions as well, but obviously, you know, like, the aesthetic is a slight, it's slightly, a little bit different. So the client, the customer, needs to understand that. You know, obviously, if you're going to go to where, like something recycled, something regenerated, you know it's going to be obviously different from something that's just going to. So I think there's some other things that we need to more discuss.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang:

So then, final question here is from your perspective, what do you think fashion factories of the future look like, and how is am group going to adapt to those changes?

Ahmed Altaf:

I'll tell you what, or how, I envision am. I know that there is certain wastages that happen throughout our entire system. Future am, to me personally, looks like zero percent wastage in the entire system, that that obviously helps us more, because what's sustainable it's good for God. So you know, for example, you know, in the process of dying there's a certain number of wastage. You know all of those things and they have to be minimized. Tech has a huge role to play. When we talk about a system like Wired Metrics, obviously we are managing our risks a lot, making sure the environments don't go to waste so easily. So we're talking about better accountabilities and not, like you know, we're talking about zero percent wastage. You know, I feel like that's what the future is and I'm currently working towards that as well, but I'm actually getting there.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang:

That's a very ambitious goal, ahmed. It's not easy to have zero waste, especially in fashion, but I wish you all the best with trying to solve that huge problem for the industry. I just want to finish off this conversation, ahmed, with a quick fire round of questions. So just a little bit of fun to end off our conversation. The first answer that comes to your head are you ready? Absolutely favorite type of garment to wear? Knitted or woven? Knitted for sure. Well, I thought you'd say that people say we're very, very knitted, right? Yeah, you're both very knitted. Um, favorite type of client to work with?

Ahmed Altaf:

I think my favorite type of client to work with is somebody who understands that. You know, the factory itself is also trying to improve itself, and they appreciate that. I feel like it's really important. And because they think about the final consumer as well. It's not just about price cutting, getting the market share, it's also about the end consumer as well, and they understand what we're doing on our supply side to make sure that the end consumer gets a great product. I think that's my favorite type of try to work with.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang:

You need more of those. Basically, yeah, the hardest thing about being a CEO of a garment factory the hardest thing.

Ahmed Altaf:

I think it would have to be. Especially I'm going to because my experience has been in Pakistan. I feel like it's a lot to do with the implementation of new processes, of new concepts, of new ideas and making sure that you know your staff and your people understand value of you know why we're trying to do that. One of the biggest issues that I faced we have with my metrics and all the other systems that I got here was the actual implementation and creating that culture of like you know, making sure that the product is good and making them understand why we're doing this, why we want to save more water system that you know helps us control and make better garments for and just value that. I think that's one of the hardest thing about being a CEO. Like to make sure that that get implemented in your name the best thing about working with wemetrics like I said, they understood my vision and they helped me get there.

Ahmed Altaf:

I think that was the biggest thing. I can't stress enough how hard it is to find somebody like that in Pakistan who understands it from a tech perspective, because it's all about you know, for example, we have a spreader machine as well that automatically lays the fabric. It's just a machine that just automatically lays the fabric. I had five people that was something that I brought. We got to control the shrinkage and everything, and I had five people right off the bat tell me this is not applicable when you get to hear so many of those things. If I got up to, he understands your vision. That's the biggest advantage of it.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang:

And then, finally, one piece of advice for any brand, any professional within fashion looking to work with a Pakistani manufacturer.

Ahmed Altaf:

I think the biggest piece of advice is you're working with the prices with Pakistani manufacturers, it's really important to have like some kind of a comparison to see where the market stands. If there's somebody who is like completely out of the radar just really look into their systems, really look into you know their factories. If you send someone to actually have a look at what's going on over there just to kind of make sure, because I feel like Nets, there's a lot of ways. There's a lot of ways to kind of like meet a pricing target, but it comes at a cost for the end consumer and that's not okay. So I feel like the biggest advice is to make sure that whoever you're working with, look at their systems and see actually, like you know, what kind of quality systems they have to die and the costs and everything that's going on, just to make sure that you get what you're looking for for the price that you have, I mean that they offer.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang:

Thank you so much for your time today. It's been really insightful talking about NetWare and your factory.

Abdul Moiz sajjad:

Thank you so much, ahmed, for the time and your thoughts, thoughts. I think this is a great conversation for anyone who wants to have an idea about the native industry, and especially in baprashan, and especially who wants to get inspired.

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Peter Jeun Ho Tsang

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