Applied Series: Intertwining Heritage and Innovation at IFA Paris with Jean-Baptiste Andreani

IFA Paris' ambition to intertwine heritage and innovation
In this first official episode of the Applied Series where we talk to featured fashion industry professionals on the book  Fashion Tech Applied, Jean-Baptiste Andreani, group CEO of IFA Paris, takes us through how French fashion heritage is being transformed by technology.  We discuss how the school based in Paris, born from a love story in 1982, recognised the need to integrate more forward-thinking innovation subjects into their courses, and how global fashion education is embracing teaching new-age skills with traditional ones.

Integrating tech and innovation into fashion education
Jean-Baptiste takes us through how the next wave of creatives is being armed with the arsenal of a tech lab – think body scanners, fabric scanners, and 3D printers, all integral to learning by doing. We confront the cultural resistance to change, particularly in France, and shine a light on the exciting possibilities that await when tech-savvy graduates infuse traditional fashion settings with fresh ideas.  This episode is a must-listen for fashion students, students-to-be, and any professional in academia.

Connect with Jean-Baptiste on LinkedIn.
Find out more about IFA Paris.

*EXCLUSIVE OFFER* -20% discount for podcast listeners on the printed or ebook of Fashion Tech Applied. Purchase your copy at Springer here using the discount code*: 08cWPRlx1J7prE

*Offer valid until end june 2024

Transcript

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 0:03

Fashion Tech Applied is published, my co-authored book taking you through six chapters and covering the technologies and innovations powering the fashion industry. I'm Peter Jeun Ho Tsang, founder and CEO of Beyond Form, and welcome to the special podcast series Applied. Each episode, I'll be sitting down with incredible fashion tech professionals that are featured inside the book. On today's episode, I'm sitting down with Jean-Baptiste Andreani, group CEO of IFA Paris, a fashion school that welcomes over 89 nationalities to follow their dream of studying at one of the world's fashion capitals. Jean-baptiste and IFA Paris are featured in chapter one of the book, where fashion tech is defined on what it may mean for fashion's future talent. I've collaborated with IFA Paris ever since I set foot as an expert in the city, and together we discuss what it will take to get the industry's emerging talent to adopt innovations into their practice.

Jean-Baptiste Andreani: 0:58

Expansion of fashion tech will only work if schools and the industry work hand in hand in a way. This is where I would say there's a lot of work that needs to be done in terms of understanding, as you said, that tech is a discipline that is changing almost on a daily basis.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 1:22

Let's get stuck into the conversation with Jean-Baptiste on this episode of Venturing into Fashion Tech. How are you today, jean-baptiste? I'm very good, and you, I'm very good, thank you. It's the first time we're doing a podcast recording together, even though we've been working together for now nearly six years. Time has gone quickly. Before we get stuck into the conversation itself, I'm just going to give a little bit more context to our listeners.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 1:46

Ifa Paris, or the International Fashion Academy based in Paris, has been around 500 students per year, and you're going to tell us a bit about more later on what the school is and the programs that you have here. In addition, there is Istanbul and Shanghai campuses, but the Paris campus attracts 89 nationalities from around the world. There's many people coming to Paris to study fashion, many are hoping to stay in the country after graduation, and France specifically employs around 600,000 people in the fashion sector, according to quadrature. However, competition is stiff, as the world's most famous fashion brands are here and everybody wants to work with them. Therefore, to make graduates even more employable, ifa Paris and obviously us together in our partnership has addressed that with developing technology, with the NX curriculum and the tech gap, preparing students for the high tech demand of the evolving fashion industry. Without further ado, the first question is them can you shed light on IFA Paris's mission and how it's actively bridging the tech gap by aspiring fashion designers?

Jean-Baptiste Andreani: 2:59

So I'm getting you a little bit of a preview, because if you go on our website, you're not going to find this mission that I'm going to tell you right now, but because we're updating it. I would say that IFA Paris's mission is to keep the French heritage alive. So obviously we're in France, we're a Parisian school, we have a very strong heritage when it comes to the fashion industry and also luxury, but heritage should be considered as something that is a bit of a living entity, and so, in order to make sure that this heritage evolves as well with time, we're trying to look at it through the prism of sustainability and the prism of tech. So, when it comes to the perspective of sustainability, obviously what is very important for us is to ensure that all the students are actually aware of their impact on the environment, but are also aware that sustainability is also about creating links with the community, hence why the notions of diversity and inclusivity are extremely important.

Jean-Baptiste Andreani: 4:10

And onto what is of interest for us to doing this podcast the perspective of fashion tech. It's a bit of a maligned industry at the end of the day, or extension of our industry, because a lot of people think or equate fashion tech either to something that is very stereotypical, or something that is like artificial intelligence, and then they tend to put together doomsday scenarios where artificial intelligence is going to replace employees and workers, when it's actually not the case. And for us, what is extremely important is to show that fashion tech is a tool that is specifically in place in order to keep the fashion heritage alive. So that's how we see fashion tech here.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 5:01

And do you think fashion heritage can have technology placed into?

Jean-Baptiste Andreani: 5:04

it? Yes, absolutely. I mean, you know, it's all about making sure that we have the most updated creation and production tools at the end of the day. So let's just take an example when COVID hit and it was impossible to do any prototyping with proper models, well, thank God we had avatars. Thank God we had body scanners as well 3D modeling software. So, in a way, we're still keeping the heritage of what we call a confection in French, that you would probably call tailoring in English. So we're keeping this alive thanks to fashion tech.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 5:50

And how long has Paris actually been here? When did this start? What was the story of the?

Jean-Baptiste Andreani: 5:55

school. The story of the school is a love story.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 6:01

I love story. We haven't had a love story on the podcast.

Jean-Baptiste Andreani: 6:04

There you go, so here's your first. It's a love story because it was created by a couple, a French gentleman His name is Patrick Kusminga-Vayeff and a Chinese lady who did that, chai. So they met, they had a love for fashion. Madame Chai followed a program, an academic program, in fashion, and you know, they both wanted to do something together that was related to fashion. And then they asked themselves okay, what could we do?

Jean-Baptiste Andreani: 6:34

And I think it just came almost instinctively to them that they wanted to create a fashion school a little bit different than other fashion schools at the time, because since the GEDGAR, they decided to have all the programs delivered in English, which you know nowadays is not such a novelty, you know, even in France, but back then, 40 years ago, it was and they wanted to have an international perspective to this fashion school. So it was extremely important for them. And now, just for the little story, because you know we said that it all started with a love story and now the legacy is continuing, as Ifa Paris has been sold and is now part of a larger education group called EDH that shares the same philosophy, the same values as Ifa Paris and the same love for a beautiful thing.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 7:36

So the love is still there. Love is still there, exactly. So they want prom to actually embed fashion tech into the curriculum. What was that journey you did? Well, yes, I don't know that Okay.

Jean-Baptiste Andreani: 7:50

so just for just so that everybody knows right, Because Peter at the beginning said that we met about six years ago actually, and it coincided with a large scale research that we conducted with three different types of stakeholders our current students at the time are alumni. And the recruiters the people, the companies that are recruiting our students. And so one of the questions that we asked was if you were able to, you know, change our programs and add certain topics to them, what would they be? And overwhelmingly, the two responses were sustainability and fashion tech. So, based on that and after meeting with you, pienta, we actually put together a strategy making to academic development, but also transformation of EFA Paris, to ensure that we were in sync with what the students were requesting, what our alumni were requesting and, most importantly, what the industry needed.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 9:05

Six years ago, fresh off the Euro star, I met Jean Matisse going on this fashion tech journey in Paris, but it hasn't always been easy. Especially six years ago, fashion tech wasn't necessarily that visible just yet in the city and many fashion skills were still trying to find their feet. As to what is fashion tech beyond, you know, wearables and jackets that light up, and how will it actually impact the students learning the curriculum and, of course, the industry at large as well? What have some of those barriers been transitioning from, as you was talking about at the start of the episode that Savard were that heritage then going into high tech, whether that students or, for example, with the star, I mean, we've had this conversation in the past and for students who are coming to Paris, what still remains extremely important is for them to acquire this know-how, or Savard to do with this French perspective.

Jean-Baptiste Andreani: 10:10

So obviously the idea of being able to touch fabrics and work with your hands is still prevalent in their mind.

Jean-Baptiste Andreani: 10:21

But I think the main challenge is not really an educational challenge although there are some but I think the main challenge is very much based around marketing and communication of the fashion tech program, because it still is very abstract for outsiders and I would say it sometimes is very abstract for companies as well.

Jean-Baptiste Andreani: 10:47

And that's what I was saying when we started the podcast, when you asked me about the mission of the Faberis and I was telling you that tech can be perceived as a stereotype, and so you were talking about just now of jackets that light up so instinctively that's what people think. Right, they will never think of artificial intelligence that can help stores optimize their assortments, their merchandise and so on. So there's this aspect here and otherwise, when we go very much in detail in terms of what is tech applied to fashion, it can become a little abstract for people because the vocabulary that is used in that realm is very different from the one that is used in the fashion industry, for example. We talk about solutions, right? So what are solutions? As opposed to garments, for example, or prototypes, there's something that are very material, that you can almost touch.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 11:57

Absolutely, and I think many people haven't got their heads around yet that it's still problem solving in fashion, just problem solving in a different way, beyond garments pattern making, the more traditional hand skills that we know in the industry, but using technologies to do it instead, and hence, obviously, why Ron and I wrote the book as well.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 12:19

Fashion Tech Applied is to try and demystify some of those myths shall we call them about what Fashion Tech is or what it could be doing, and also try to remove that barrier as well of what I call the innovation fear factor, those people that haven't necessarily caught up yet with what is technology for the realms of fashion and therefore they're rather shy away from it than really take charge. In the book, 95% of the surveyed fashion designers, students at IFA Paris, had not experienced technologies beyond those available through AR filters and social media in the fashion context, so that's quite a high number. What specific initiatives has IFA Paris employed to prepare the next generation for high tech fashion demands beyond what is very visceral, very immediate, instant results with things like AR filters?

Jean-Baptiste Andreani: 13:15

Yeah, so, in terms of hardware, we created a tech lab that is equipped with a lot of tools, such as body scanners, fabric scanners, 3d printers, oculus Quest as well, so that the students could actually experience these equipments in the context of the creation of their collections or maybe the creation of a brand new retail experience. When it comes to marketing students, we've also tried and this is, you know, to be fair, still a work in progress to train lecturers, whether we're talking about design lectures or marketing lectures, and you know, I have to say that the rate of adoption is not as high as what we would hope, hence why I still consider it a work in progress. But I see glimpses of whole what should I say? Some glimpses? Because we're integrating, like a lot of what we call industry projects or practical case studies, with brands that are brought through our network or through beyond forms network, sometimes even startups that were in our startup incubation program, and so we are bringing these companies in actual practical projects that are integrated within the academic program.

Jean-Baptiste Andreani: 14:47

So it's a sort of learning by doing type of strategy, and I think this is probably the best strategy, at least for students to be fully exposed to what fashion tech is, and this year, during our graduation show in July, I was very happy to see that there were quite a few students that had, you know, integrated some tools in order to create their designs. I can thinking of Giovanni, for example, a BFD3 graduate, who had structures in his final year collection that were created through 3D printing. So I think patience is the operating word here.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 15:36

Yeah, amazing cutting was also quite popular amongst some of them as well. How about yourself, jean-marie? Have you caught up yet with fashion tech?

Jean-Baptiste Andreani: 15:45

Oh, not really sure, peter, I mean I try, you know. I mean at least I would say I'm interested, I read about it. Obviously, I'm involved when it comes to creating projects with you guys. In my day to day life I wouldn't say that tech is very much prevalent. I tried, but you know, for example, like all those predictive AI choices in terms of styling, it doesn't work for me. I mean, it's not that it doesn't work from a technical point of view, but it's more from a personality point of view, because I like to be in control.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 16:30

So that's why yeah, and I think that's a very relevant point. I think the fact that technology is moving at lightning speed is very difficult for anybody to keep up Correct Even myself, when I'm looking at it day in, day out, with all of these amazing startups that I work with on a daily basis. You do have to just like try and take a moment just to breathe a little bit from right the tech world. You know, as of recording this specific episode, there was the whole debacle of open AI and chat EPT. The last week ago the CEO was fired, then he was reinstated during the Microsoft, but not going to Microsoft, just you know. All of that drama is very indicative of how quickly technology moves compared to fashion.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 17:20

Even though people do think fashion moves very quickly, I think culturally, it's very hidden away about how slow it is. Yeah, absolutely, and I was surprised and I've said to you this many times that France was quite slow and is still quite slow when it comes to technology adopting into the practices at a cultural level, at a core operational level as well. I think that is shifting and it has shifted quite a lot actually since I started working with you in Paris, but I think there's still a lot more progression that could be made there. So then, thinking about those fashion brands that are trying to keep up and, hopefully, the graduates that are coming out of the IFA, paris or any fashion school hopefully they are a little bit more tech-savvy, shall we say. So how can fashion brands actually leverage that these graduates are coming out with new skills that they haven't necessarily seen it within their workforces?

Jean-Baptiste Andreani: 18:25

I feel that they need to relinquish control in a way. I'm going to make a comparison that is going to sound not that relevant, but you will understand why I'm making this comparison. We have an apprentice here with us in the communication department and she insisted on creating a TikTok account. Now, you know, arching back to what I was selling you earlier on, it's just something that it's not that I don't understand it, but it's not part of my life and it's not part of my generation. So, you know, I let her run with it and you know she did amazingly and she's doing amazingly, and so if we bring this back to fashion houses, I would say relinquish control.

Jean-Baptiste Andreani: 19:18

What you're saying is very true, that we're very much set in our ways, even more so in France. It's almost cultural, in a way. Right, we're very much, very much attached to certain principles, certain values, and that is what is preventing us from progressing. So, you know, I would expect graduates or even interns from Eva Paris to be given the autonomy and the flexibility to introduce, for example, softwares that relate with 3D modeling, because, you know, perhaps in the next five years, who knows, there will not be any fashion weeks anymore and then maybe all showrooms are going to be virtual, like what the new black wants to do as well, and they're working very hard with the Federation here. But to do that, we need to make sure that we're moving from a 2D software like you know illustrator, for example to a 3D modeling software. So Andrew's the new generation, and that's just one example. So I would say, yeah, give them, give the graduates a chance.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 20:28

A little bit of a chance, considering how competitive it is. You know, I was just saying right at the start 600,000 people employed in France in fashion specifically, is not that many jobs, considering how many fashion graduates that are not necessarily just in France but globally overall.

Jean-Baptiste Andreani: 20:48

Yeah, but I mean, you know your figure 600,000 is focusing on the fashion industry, but you do have a lot of other industries that are connected with fashion and that are also generating employment. So I feel, in my opinion, as long as we keep a broader perspective and we have a broader definition of what fashion is, the possibilities are much bigger than just those 600,000 jobs.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 21:22

So then, in regards to other fashion schools, obviously IFA Paris is only turning out so many students per year, but for technology to be truly adopted globally, it will need, you know, the forces of all the fashion schools to come together. What can fashion schools then do to make sure that they're continuously innovating around the technology, to make sure that they are staying ahead?

Jean-Baptiste Andreani: 21:47

I think it's a bit of a catch 22,. Right, because here we're talking about fashion schools pushing for fashion tech, but also the industry needs to be pushing for fashion tech as well. Right, what I was telling you earlier on about the adoption of the 3D modeling software it's still not widespread amongst fashion houses. Right, despite having gone through COVID, despite knowing that the future is going to be virtual reality showrooms again, we're still very much stuck in our ways. So I would say that the expansion of fashion tech will only work if schools and the industry work hand in hand in a way. And this is where I would say there's a lot of work that needs to be done in terms of understanding, as you said, that tech is a discipline that is changing almost on a daily basis.

Jean-Baptiste Andreani: 22:50

And I'm going to make a link here to certifications and accreditations, because you know, to request a certification in fashion tech and to make sure that graduates have, for example, let's say, a seal of approval from the Ministry of Labor in France, through France Competence, we need to submit in a way that we can get in our files, if we request an accreditation, the placement of at least one cohort that is graduating Now. Imagine next year, in 2024, I'm submitting these statistics but in 2024, the skills that they will have learned in 2023, I'm not saying that they're going to be obsolete, but these graduates are going to need to upgrade their skills constantly, and so this needs to be taken into account as well, because, you know, the general public thinks that these accreditations again are a seal of approval and a quality stamp in a way, but that doesn't apply to fashion tech, and so I think schools, companies, fashion houses, but also governments and, more specifically, ministries of education, mysteries of labor, need to be in this loop.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 24:11

I'm not sure what he called, is it? Yes, so any ministers or government people listening, that is all us. He's already cool. I think that's quite interesting what you say, that that there's still that bureaucracy that you still have to overcome and I think For anybody that's ever lived in France, they know what we're talking about. In regards to paperwork and administration. I think we can have a whole another podcast episode on that at some point.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 24:41

We've worked on several fashion tech projects together now as part of our partnership from and I feel, paris, which you talked about. Now, we've had the fashion tech lab. We've had in G projects. We've had integration of technologies into the curriculum, such as digital fashion, which you were just talking about, which, by the way, I think it's really exciting to see that IFA Paris has made it mandatory across quite a lot of the programs, across quite a lot of the years as well, which is, I think, refreshing to see. As the listeners will know, I've talked many times that when I was studying digital fashion, we were very much the geeks in the corner as a very specialized program. What's been your favorite projects so far and why can?

Jean-Baptiste Andreani: 25:26

I can I talk about startups To the academic project. You can talk about whatever you want. Yeah, of course, because you know startups are part of foundry and you know foundry is ventured, you know, between IFA, paris and beyond form. So I think my favorite so far has to be fines, to be honest with you, because I feel I love when tech is developed for a purpose and that's what it should be, right. And so fines, having such a strong DNA that is connected to sustainability and looking into tech, and AI in particular, in order to optimize the utilization of access stocks and therefore reducing our carbon footprint, is a perfect example, almost a poster child, of what tech should be.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 26:26

And for any listeners, you will remember that fines is run by and co-founded by Andrea and Joe, and Andrew used to be a student of that's right IFA Paris. Which program specifically?

Jean-Baptiste Andreani: 26:38

She was in the MBA fashion business and at the time she was one of the very first student that did her thesis on circularity and sustainability in a more general sense.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 26:52

Yeah. So I think fines is the perfect example you know what you were talking about right at the start sustainability in tech coming together, and I think that's quite important to stress. So, even though in the book we don't necessarily move to two things together, but in the case of fines it is it is not necessarily the perfect outcome, but it is a great outcome of where entrepreneurship, business, fashion and sustainability and tech is all coming together into a, into a project.

Jean-Baptiste Andreani: 27:22

So what's next? Ifa Paris At the beginning of the podcast, we are part of a group called EDH and, as part of our integration within the group, we're looking at well, what's the strategy going to be, at least for the next five years. So, peter, you mentioned that we've made fashion tech mandatory in the programs and we are increasing the footprint I would say our fashion tech further into our programs. We are restructuring our offer in terms of postgraduate program and and changing the MBA fashion tech and we want this to be again part of our DNA at the end of the day, because, just like French heritage, when it comes to fashion, a school cannot be stuck in a certain decade or in a certain pedagogical framework. So we need to look to the future and that's what we are trying to do in terms of reimagining what our future academic programs will be.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 28:39

Are there any technologies yet that haven't been integrated, that you really want to get your mix on?

Jean-Baptiste Andreani: 28:44

Yeah, artificial intelligence, like more forcefully in terms of machine learning, I would say, because you know, all students know about artificial intelligence, but how to program in would be extremely interesting. I feel for them.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 29:01

We did test that in an MBA fashion tech. It was difficult, it is, it's very difficult.

Jean-Baptiste Andreani: 29:08

It's a very specific skill. It's not something that you can do over. You know the time frame of a project that will be like 20 plus hours. I think it's something that requires much more experimenting with.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 29:25

So I just want to finish off this conversation with a quick fire round of questions. The first answer that comes to your head are you ready? I think so. Have you already purchased your copy of fashion tech applied?

Jean-Baptiste Andreani: 29:37

Not yet. I'm waiting for you to give it to me.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 29:43

One tech till every fashion students should have her create tech trend you never saw coming in fashion NFTs. One piece of advice of fashion students looking to break into the industry Be resilient, very resilient at that. If IFA Paris had a fashion tech mascot, what would it be?

Jean-Baptiste Andreani: 30:04

A hologram of Carl Lagerfeld.

Peter Jeun Ho Tsang: 30:07

Oh, that's a good. Thank you so much for your time, jean-baptiste. Thank you so much for having me, peter.